Hi Kyle,
When did you begin with Out of Season what were the motivations that pushed you to embark on this enterprise?
The decision to start this label began in 2015... I had been "out of the game" for about 7 years after the dissolution of my previous label and felt the desire to begin releasing new and interesting music on tape again. Since the early 2000s I have been interested in the music that is now referred to as 'dungeon synth' aka dark medieval ambient. This all started when a friend of mine made me a tape of Summoning’s “Nightshade Forests” EP, and then shortly after I heard Mortiis’ early works, followed by Neptune Towers and Wongraven (I still consider these to be among my favorites, and absolutely mandatory for anyone getting into ‘dungeon synth’).
At the time, even 2 years ago when I was starting the label, there was the beginning sparks of the huge revival this subgenre has seen now, but very little was being released on physical formats such as cassette tapes - most things were still just digital only with a few tapes here and there. I basically just started by inquiring with artists that I enjoyed greatly and asking if they were interested in a Tape release of their music. I go with my gut and can tell if the artists I work with have that 'spirit' in them that I look for... The sound is a big part of it, of course, but for me knowing that the creator carries that spirit of the 'old ways' in their heart is equally as important. It’s important for me to see these releases not just on a screen playing in a browser, but also sitting there on my shelf. It makes them a bit more ‘real’ and able to be celebrated in my mind, versus just existing in the web somewhere.
How was your previous experience with your previous black metal label?
It was very much a product of its time, but it gave me experience for how to properly run and operate a small label. That said, in the 7-8 years I was not doing a label everything changed. During my first label, there was no social media, no Facebook, instagram etc. There was no bandcamp pages and YouTube was in its infancy. I still got orders sometimes with cash in the mail and orders were sent without tracking numbers and people just communicated by email only if they wanted to make an order.
I forged some great friendships in this time with people from across the world... There was more of a human element to the process that is now gone…
People were more patient back then and now it is if you don't respond in 2 minutes it's not fast enough. Now, it is more of a formal business transaction taking place and people sometimes expect a small label to be the same like they are ordering from Amazon.
I sometimes miss these ‘old days’ at points, but have adapted to the current way of operating by harnessing some of the new "tools" available to us now, and accepted it for what it is.
Going back in the years, at the beginning of the 1990s, this genre had not yet attributed the name "dungeon synth" but groups such as Mortiis, Vond, Wongraven, Fata Morgana, Neptune Tower,Mz412, etc , had recorded great music. Now that this genre exploded what is different now from the beginning?
How do you think this genre has evolved and how will this kind of music evolve in the future?
This is a loaded question with many factors at play but I will try to sum up.
In the early days, no one was trying to make this kind of music to appeal to a certain audience, it was just created organically. And for the most part it was cast aside and not taken very seriously as a legitimate genre, just seen as some dark synth music made by black metal musicians mostly. For many, many years, this was how the genre was perceived.
Now, especially growing in the last 2-3 years, "dungeon synth" (DS) aka dark medieval ambient music has been recognized as its own distinct genre, with many new followers and supporters who take it seriously. Things like blogs, Facebook, message boards and bandcamp have given the DS 'scene' a way to centralize its following and for those creating this music and fans of it to find each other. The internet is inherently intertwined with the rise of DS.
The DS ‘scene’ seems to attract more new followers every week - I dont see this changing any time soon, and I welcome any new followers to the genre, certainly…. My only request is that those recently becoming interested do their research and pay respects to the forefathers of the genre (including recognizing that DS is rooted in black metal), not just the modern creators who became active in the last 2-3 years, as magnificent as many of these projects are.
Considering the favorable technical conditions for recording this music and seeing a new band coming out every day, for you as a label owner, what are the elements that make you choose a band instead of another? The quality limit has risen?
What element do you consider essential for a Dungeon Synth group to be deserved in 2017 for a production?
As I mentioned in an earlier response, it is more than ‘just’ the music to me. Of course the sound is very important, but I look for those who have the spirit of the underground and which I can get a sense of their real dedication to their craft, who have spent hours and hours over many months or years refining their work and producing the best album they can.
I can tell this immediately when listening to something. I have very little interest in projects which have created an album in 2 hours and thrown together a cover and posted it online. Sometimes people ask for advice on how to get ‘signed’ and I always tell them the same thing - patience is key! Make a timeline, and work on your album for at least a few months. Dont accept the first thing that comes to mind -- Push yourself! Most bands spend at least a year writing a record, why should DS be any different?
Why do you think the bond between the genre dungeon synth and the production through the cassette physical media format is so strong?
The cassette and DS are intertwined by history and necessity.
From a financial and logistical standpoint, the cassette manufacturers allow for low production runs but still produce a product that looks high quality and ‘pro’.
From a historical standpoint, cassettes have been the medium of choice since the inception of the genre and its roots in black metal, and using cassettes allows us to continue down that same path of tradition. I have always thought that people have an inherent connection to the tape format which is unexplainable. You can hold it in one hand and get a ‘feel’ of the release. It is fragile and at the same time, powerful. For me personally, the same connection does not exist with CDs or vinyl as much.
The number of people listening to this genre is increasing exponentially, but people who actually buy the tape (or CD whatever,etc) relatively less.
Since in the future there will be a “bigger offer” with more bands, birth of new labels, and the productions will eventually vary from vinyl tapes etc.
How do you think a record label can remain competitive by taking care of the differentiation of expensive formats and, at the same time, putting out good music?
Your first statement here is correct. Typically I make 100 of a release and it still takes 6 months to a year to sell them all. The percentage of people who have an interest in the genre that buy physical media is small, but this is not limited to the DS subgenre. You can say this for any physical media, including DVD’s of movies or CDs of rock bands.
Regarding the state of these ‘sales’ - I am fine with how things are now and dont see them changing much anytime soon. Of course, I would love if we could press 500 or 1000 of every release and have them all sell to a wide audience because I think that strongly about the genre and the artists I am releasing.. But, I am realistic, too, that people in general just have a weaker interest in physical media overall regardless of genre.
Further, part of me does not want the ‘scene’ to become some mainstream thing -- I like that it is ‘our’ thing and likely will never get much more popular than it is now - most people in the general public or even in the metal scene dont ‘get it’ still, or just dont care for it… they just hear some instrumental synth music and move on to something else.
I think it is slowly emerging a stylistic distinction in this genre; one that is closer to more medieval sounds and even with some fantasy “film-making sound” elements , another with a more atmospheric minimalist and obscure sound, Do you think is a differentiation that in the future will be more emphasized?
Very hard for me to say what direction the genre will take in the future, but I look forward to hearing all of the unique and original creations that come out in the next few years, and perhaps you’ll see some ‘sub-subgenres’ of DS come out of this (perhaps already are!).
Free words !
Thanks for the interview and for asking some provocative questions.
Thank you to everyone who has supported Out of Season to date. I have made some great friends since starting this label and look forward to more in the future!
